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tenshinoakuma) wrote2013-04-06 09:22 am
tenshinoakuma) wrote2013-04-06 09:22 am
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Thoughts on Dragon Quest 8 so far
Otherwise known as Dragon Quest: Journey of the Cursed King in PAL regions, which got the game in 2006. Dragon Quest 8 (DQ8) is the first Dragon Quest game PAL got, so I think that's why we didn't get the number on the title :T
DQ8 is also the first Dragon Quest game I've played, and after playing Atlus RPGs and Final Fantasies and RPGs that are neither Atlus nor Final Fantasy, it was very interesting playing a game that is very much 'older' in feel but does not feel 'old' at all.
Well. I mean.
Many elements that I would associate with older JRPGs are present in DQ8. Things like plot progression via progressing through towns, no save points in dungeons, 'simple' battle system, no save points in dungeons, not terribly complex main plot, NO SAVE POINTS IN DUNGEONS. There's a fair amount of these kinds of things that would annoy me in a different kind of game, but it's really odd because in DQ8 it just feels charming instead of annoying. It's really curious that it has that charming effect and I'm finding it hard to point out exactly why that's so.
Let's break down some of the elements that stand out most to me right now, starting with the battle system because we all know that battle systems are my foreverlove to talk about.
For those unfamiliar with the DQ8 battle system, it's a turn based combat, where you input all your commands at the beginning of the turn, and both you and the enemies execute your actions semi-randomly, agility having some influence over the turn order. If you choose to fight your enemies, your options are normal physical attack, abilities (which are physical skills), spells, defend and psych up. I'll go into more details about this in a moment.
I think the closest thing I've played to it is Final Fantasy 3, except DQ8 doesn't have the class system, instead giving you 4 characters with particular stat distributions who learn predetermined spells at predetermined levels. You can have some influence over how you use them by putting points into particular skill branches (4 weapon type skill branches, 1 special skill branch). Most of the skills and boosts to the weapon type skill branches only apply when the character is using that particular weapon type, so you do need to be a bit smart about you choose. The frustrating thing for me is I can't plan ahead without consulting a guide buuut I kind of do consult skill trees for other games so I can't be too annoyed about this.
Anyway, there are two things that make this battle system really fascinating.
Firstly, DQ8 has enemy groupings. For example, you might encounter 3x Slimes and 2x Candy Cats. the Slimes would be considered one group, while the Candy Cats would be considered a different group. Most of your multi-target attacks will only hit one group, rather than all enemies (unlike when you target multiple enemies in the older Final Fantasies, Mabufudynes, etc.). Additionally, some weapon types you use will naturally hit in a group rather than a single target (often a boon, but sometimes can be a bad thing), and some single target weapons have a 0 MP skill that will do the same thing. However, usually these weapons/weapon skills deal a bit less damage than a single target attack, and often deal decreasing damage across the group (i.e. the left-most enemy of the group will take full damage, the next one takes ~90%, next takes ~80%, etc.). On top of that, sometimes there are groupings within enemy types, e.g. you might encounter 6x slimes, but they could come in groups of two, 3x slimes.
This is fascinating because making a decision on whether it's better to target multiple enemies has greater weight than in other games I play; not only do I need to decide if I actually benefit from targeting a group rather than eliminate the enemies one by one, but I also need to decide which group to target. I currently only have one spell that ignores groupings and targets all enemies, but not only is it very mana inefficient, but... it kind of does lousy damage anyway. . .
Psyching up is also an interesting addition to the battle system (note that this feature was not in the original Japanese version). Basically, by spending turns, you can exponentially increase your character's damage (or healing but who uses psych up for healing). If you spend 1 turn psyching up, on that next turn, your character will do about 2x damage. If you spend 2 turns psyching up, your character will do about 4x damage and so on. There's an upper limit and some complications on higher limits but this is the basic gist of it. p.s. enemies can psych up, too.
Psyching up brings plenty of other decisions into play. Firstly, is it worth psyching up if the enemies may die faster if you just attacked instead? For many random battles, the answer is no. If you miss your Psyched up attack, you also lose that massive damage and have to start from square one, so is that risk worth the reward? If you decide to, say, Defend or use a support spell for a turn after Psyching up, you lose the benefit of those turns you just spent. If your character is hit by, say, a sleep spell after Psyching up, you lose that benefit. Sometimes, being hit too hard also makes you lose the benefit of Psyching up. So you do have to be smart about your usage of this, but the benefits are amazing.
Then there's stuff like certain weapon skills not costing any MP, including a single target attack that reduces the enemy's defence, an attack that always goes first for slightly lower damage (Pokemon's Mach Punch, anyone?) and fhshdfhdf yes.
And for all I call this battle system 'simple', this doesn't mean that DQ8's battles are easy by any means. I don't think it's a boast to say that I am good at these kinds of battle systems, given how easily I breeze through many games that are considered tough. But DQ8's random battles are often quite tough. You have to be smart. There's no overt reward for being smart in battle (like there is in Atlus' games that give you free turns for hitting weaknesses) so to me it feels a bit like when I was playing Final Fantasies, but the difference is that the enemies are often difficult enough that my choices have a significant enough impact on the battle's result. Like... I can afford to play badly in Final Fantasy 7 because the random battles are so easy that I can just do whatever and come out on top, not much worse for wear. But, if I space out and make poor decisions in DQ8, it can often be the difference between coming out of the battle with a few scrapes, or coming out of the battle with 3/4 of my party on the verge of death.
But aside from the actual battle system, the battles themselves are really quite charming, and I think that has a lot to do with the art direction (which, in this case, also includes the text). All the enemies are rather vibrant and beautifully animated, all enemy types being incredibly distinct from each other. All enemies have idle animations (some of them being quite goofy, e.g. the monsters on the left will accidentally let go of the boot before hurriedly pulling it back up), various attack animations (THERE ARE A LOT), sleep animations, death animations, fleeing animations. . . I think it's notable that the death animations aren't just simple fading/collapsing animations. For example, beating a phantom fencer will cause the cloak to fall to the ground, while the sword goes spinning before landing point first into the ground.
Enemy (and some of your) attacks are sometimes accompanied by additional dialogue, like "Talos stomped with his massive foot" or "Hackzilla slashes twice like a falcon!" and it's just. Really really charming. I like that there's elements in the random battles to keep things lighthearted and charming. Little things like enemy status attacks that makes my characters double over in laughter or start dancing on the spot, which has the combat effect of making my characters lose a turn really do a lot to add to the enjoyment of the game. Not only that, many of the enemies also have punny names (e.g. dead ringer, Jum, Mum,Boh and Boe, which combine to form... Mumbohjumboe, a slime knight called a One Knight Stand) and aaaaaaaaaaaa (ノ・∀・)ノ
I WAS GOING TO TALK ABOUT PARTY CHAT AND DQ8'S VARIOUS ELEMENTS OF CONVENIENCE/INCONVENIENCE BUT I have seriously written 1.4k words on just its battle system I THINK THAT IS QUITE ENOUGH.
DQ8 is also the first Dragon Quest game I've played, and after playing Atlus RPGs and Final Fantasies and RPGs that are neither Atlus nor Final Fantasy, it was very interesting playing a game that is very much 'older' in feel but does not feel 'old' at all.
Well. I mean.
Many elements that I would associate with older JRPGs are present in DQ8. Things like plot progression via progressing through towns, no save points in dungeons, 'simple' battle system, no save points in dungeons, not terribly complex main plot, NO SAVE POINTS IN DUNGEONS. There's a fair amount of these kinds of things that would annoy me in a different kind of game, but it's really odd because in DQ8 it just feels charming instead of annoying. It's really curious that it has that charming effect and I'm finding it hard to point out exactly why that's so.
Let's break down some of the elements that stand out most to me right now, starting with the battle system because we all know that battle systems are my foreverlove to talk about.
For those unfamiliar with the DQ8 battle system, it's a turn based combat, where you input all your commands at the beginning of the turn, and both you and the enemies execute your actions semi-randomly, agility having some influence over the turn order. If you choose to fight your enemies, your options are normal physical attack, abilities (which are physical skills), spells, defend and psych up. I'll go into more details about this in a moment.
I think the closest thing I've played to it is Final Fantasy 3, except DQ8 doesn't have the class system, instead giving you 4 characters with particular stat distributions who learn predetermined spells at predetermined levels. You can have some influence over how you use them by putting points into particular skill branches (4 weapon type skill branches, 1 special skill branch). Most of the skills and boosts to the weapon type skill branches only apply when the character is using that particular weapon type, so you do need to be a bit smart about you choose. The frustrating thing for me is I can't plan ahead without consulting a guide buuut I kind of do consult skill trees for other games so I can't be too annoyed about this.
Anyway, there are two things that make this battle system really fascinating.
Firstly, DQ8 has enemy groupings. For example, you might encounter 3x Slimes and 2x Candy Cats. the Slimes would be considered one group, while the Candy Cats would be considered a different group. Most of your multi-target attacks will only hit one group, rather than all enemies (unlike when you target multiple enemies in the older Final Fantasies, Mabufudynes, etc.). Additionally, some weapon types you use will naturally hit in a group rather than a single target (often a boon, but sometimes can be a bad thing), and some single target weapons have a 0 MP skill that will do the same thing. However, usually these weapons/weapon skills deal a bit less damage than a single target attack, and often deal decreasing damage across the group (i.e. the left-most enemy of the group will take full damage, the next one takes ~90%, next takes ~80%, etc.). On top of that, sometimes there are groupings within enemy types, e.g. you might encounter 6x slimes, but they could come in groups of two, 3x slimes.
This is fascinating because making a decision on whether it's better to target multiple enemies has greater weight than in other games I play; not only do I need to decide if I actually benefit from targeting a group rather than eliminate the enemies one by one, but I also need to decide which group to target. I currently only have one spell that ignores groupings and targets all enemies, but not only is it very mana inefficient, but... it kind of does lousy damage anyway. . .
Psyching up is also an interesting addition to the battle system (note that this feature was not in the original Japanese version). Basically, by spending turns, you can exponentially increase your character's damage (or healing but who uses psych up for healing). If you spend 1 turn psyching up, on that next turn, your character will do about 2x damage. If you spend 2 turns psyching up, your character will do about 4x damage and so on. There's an upper limit and some complications on higher limits but this is the basic gist of it. p.s. enemies can psych up, too.
Psyching up brings plenty of other decisions into play. Firstly, is it worth psyching up if the enemies may die faster if you just attacked instead? For many random battles, the answer is no. If you miss your Psyched up attack, you also lose that massive damage and have to start from square one, so is that risk worth the reward? If you decide to, say, Defend or use a support spell for a turn after Psyching up, you lose the benefit of those turns you just spent. If your character is hit by, say, a sleep spell after Psyching up, you lose that benefit. Sometimes, being hit too hard also makes you lose the benefit of Psyching up. So you do have to be smart about your usage of this, but the benefits are amazing.
Then there's stuff like certain weapon skills not costing any MP, including a single target attack that reduces the enemy's defence, an attack that always goes first for slightly lower damage (Pokemon's Mach Punch, anyone?) and fhshdfhdf yes.
And for all I call this battle system 'simple', this doesn't mean that DQ8's battles are easy by any means. I don't think it's a boast to say that I am good at these kinds of battle systems, given how easily I breeze through many games that are considered tough. But DQ8's random battles are often quite tough. You have to be smart. There's no overt reward for being smart in battle (like there is in Atlus' games that give you free turns for hitting weaknesses) so to me it feels a bit like when I was playing Final Fantasies, but the difference is that the enemies are often difficult enough that my choices have a significant enough impact on the battle's result. Like... I can afford to play badly in Final Fantasy 7 because the random battles are so easy that I can just do whatever and come out on top, not much worse for wear. But, if I space out and make poor decisions in DQ8, it can often be the difference between coming out of the battle with a few scrapes, or coming out of the battle with 3/4 of my party on the verge of death.
But aside from the actual battle system, the battles themselves are really quite charming, and I think that has a lot to do with the art direction (which, in this case, also includes the text). All the enemies are rather vibrant and beautifully animated, all enemy types being incredibly distinct from each other. All enemies have idle animations (some of them being quite goofy, e.g. the monsters on the left will accidentally let go of the boot before hurriedly pulling it back up), various attack animations (THERE ARE A LOT), sleep animations, death animations, fleeing animations. . . I think it's notable that the death animations aren't just simple fading/collapsing animations. For example, beating a phantom fencer will cause the cloak to fall to the ground, while the sword goes spinning before landing point first into the ground.
Enemy (and some of your) attacks are sometimes accompanied by additional dialogue, like "Talos stomped with his massive foot" or "Hackzilla slashes twice like a falcon!" and it's just. Really really charming. I like that there's elements in the random battles to keep things lighthearted and charming. Little things like enemy status attacks that makes my characters double over in laughter or start dancing on the spot, which has the combat effect of making my characters lose a turn really do a lot to add to the enjoyment of the game. Not only that, many of the enemies also have punny names (e.g. dead ringer, Jum, Mum,Boh and Boe, which combine to form... Mumbohjumboe, a slime knight called a One Knight Stand) and aaaaaaaaaaaa (ノ・∀・)ノ
I WAS GOING TO TALK ABOUT PARTY CHAT AND DQ8'S VARIOUS ELEMENTS OF CONVENIENCE/INCONVENIENCE BUT I have seriously written 1.4k words on just its battle system I THINK THAT IS QUITE ENOUGH.