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tenshinoakuma) wrote2011-12-05 12:30 am
tenshinoakuma) wrote2011-12-05 12:30 am
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And then I made a Serph journal called bufudine
Whoops kind of haven't been around for a while. Been visiting people I haven't seen for a while so I guess I need to catch up on the internet later.
But first, some video game character thoughts!
Let's start with Digital Devil Saga and Serph. Given that I am only 10 hours in game and have a sparse understanding of the rest of the game(s), I expect much of this to end up becoming incorrect.
The thing about Serph is that his leadership abilities seems to be very much an Informed Ability. It's strange because he doesn't really demonstrate leadership outside of the introduction movie, where he actively commands the other members of Embryon's elite to move out. And while the Embryon mostly appear to be deferential to him (as he's their leader), there are other moments where he seems to be overruled. What comes to mind most is when Gale outlines the plan to betray the Maribels. While this scene is alright if you choose to go through with the plan, if Serph says they will do this without betrayal, Heat gets all hissy and Gale just continues on as if Serph had agreed in the first place. When Heat moves to devour Bat in Maribel territory, he does pause when Serph silently gestures to stop, but after a few choice words, he's back to almost eating Bat again. He stops when Argilla tells him not to, and I think it's not out of respect but not wanting Argilla on his case if he did eat Bat.
So, I guess my question is, how does Serph lead the Embryon, then?
I have a theory that with the awakening of everyone's Atma, and thus their emotions, that maybe his newly awakening personality could have overridden some of his old leadership ability. Gale says everyone is acting strangely/differently, which would imply that Serph is, too. I don't really know too many details about the cast's digital nature so I can't really expand more on this.
Instead, I guess I'll make note of what I've already seen. Firstly, I think it's worth noting that Serph is a very visible leader, unlike some of the other Tribe leaders. This is even more notable, since a Tribe is absorbed when the leader is killed, so he's not just risking his neck, but for him, personally, he would be risking the entirety of Embryon, too. Before everyone gained an Atma, I have no doubt Embryon would have switched Tribes easily since that is the law of the Junkyard. Harley, too, was a visible leader, until his Atma awakened and he became a terrified mess. If they had no concept of emotion at the time (or rather, a very limited understanding?), then how did the Tribes function or come to be before gaining Atma? Is their current state based on the real Sera's idea of how they'd be? Sort of like an author who needs to create some minor characters to fill a particular role, the Tribes are ideas on how they should be. They wouldn't have had depth or ability to function outside the limited set of what they were programmed to do. At least, this is based off my limited understanding of the late game story.
Also from what I understand, the main cast (other than Gale) were all more detailed AIs based on real people around Sera, but had those identities wiped before they were placed in the Junkyard. The Atma awakening was... reaccessing those lost AI memories? Though with the awakening of Atma, it seems all the AIs continued to grow beyond whatever they had begun with.
I think some of the Embryon members also mention that Serph has a memory problem?
Anyway, it seems Serph was probably more active in his leadership before he gained his Atma, but I do think that perhaps he's largely the same. I'm going out on a limb here, but, at least with the Embryon 'elite', he considers them all his equals, so he trusts them all with his back, likely part of the reason he's on the front lines so much (lead by example? Even if it's more risky) and why he allows the others to speak on his behalf (Gale to the Vanguards in the beginning, I imagine Argilla would have been the one to explain their offer of alliance to Jinanna). He doesn't seem to be the sort to use the others for protection either so that might factor into it.
The other silent protagonists I'm most familiar with are Minato, Souji and the protag of Devil Survivor. What's really contrasting between them and Serphs is that while none of those characters are inclined to chattiness, it's pretty apparent they can do their own fair share of talking. Souji or the DeSu protag's probably the most chatty of them, and they sure seem able to easily carry a conversation if needed, while Minato's on the more quiet side of it, but just as capable.
My impression of Serph so far is... vastly different. While the others have quite a few occasions where they either speak or are implied to speaking, Serph doesn't seem to have that. Very strongly lying on the side of not speaking unless it is necessary. You can imply Minato's speaking through the battle system (issuing commands to your party members) or through various dialogues (also, whether he accepts or refuses to hang out etc.). Most of Serph's actions imply silence, in that his commands are often wordless. Maybe that's a result of them being on a battlefield, fighting against other similarly intelligent people, so voiced commands also inform the enemy of your own movements. But outside of the tutorial-like NPCs explaining the world-building, there's been a grand total of like, two dialogue choices. Maybe when you talk to the NPCs, Serph is basically going around asking them what's up or something, basically checking on his people.
But I do have to admit he is very passive, and that the Embryon elite do much of the talking for him, and he listens. He only takes action when either asked, or when he feels strongly enough about something. While he may have objected to Gale's plan to betray the Maribels (I'm sort of assuming that's the 'right' answer, since it's the only answer to have benefits later), I don't think he felt too strongly about it because of the situation. But he does stop Heat from eating Bat, though I have no idea why, when they've been consuming lesser people all the way. When he's on his own (the Karma Temple and the Dissemination Machine and the first appearance of Angel comes to mind), I do think he does take a bit more of an active role, because there is no one else to do it. He speaks last out of the Tribe Leaders. Basically if there's no one else to do the speaking for him, then he will do it, I guess. He's also the one who carry Argilla back to base after visiting Harley.
I suppose if I was to app him to an RP (and by an RP, I mean Vatheon), I'm probably going to have to focus a lot on body language and his expression. Basically give the other player a lot of non-verbal cues. There is also the issue of, uh, you know, needing to consume. I'm estimating about a day of non-eating before the Atma starts exerting its hungry existence, based on how out of it Argilla was after visiting Harley, and how Gale turned while people were gone. I don't know if the Atma is indiscriminate, or if it has to be Atma specifically that everyone needs to consume (I'm assuming the latter, though). Although I admit, it would be pretty funny if someone offered themselves up for eating and after Serph ate them it'd be like LOL NOPE THAT DIDN'T DO ANYTHING. Whoops. It's possible for Vatheon to have a dampening effect on the Atma's hunger, though, and I guess there's a good chance he'll have to go to the Nostalgia Nook to find some sort of Atma substitute.
I suppose maybe I should look at how he regards his Atma. It seems he's very much go with the flow in regards to the new power. Not rejecting the need to consume, but not revelling it either. I think that says a lot about how he is, very... middle path? That might actually be an interesting thing to watch out for, given the hindu and buddhist aesthetics in this game. Well, either way, he does what he has to and accepts change for what it is and goes on.
What I find interesting is how his Atma is in stark contrast with his personality. Heat's Atma seems to simply exacerbate his developing fiery personality, while Argilla's seems to reflect her own dislike for consumption, given her faceless Atma with teeth in a very awkward feeding location. Serph does seem to have a rather cool demeanour, but when he gets into Atma form, the roars when he consumes or gets the final blow is really bestial. Because the Atma are essentially a part of them, makes me wonder how it is for Serph, since the Atma seems to revel in the killing, but he doesn't. A means to an end?
Man I really should be waiting before doing this kind of character analysis, since I'm sure the game has answers to a lot of the questions I have.
WHY DID I WRITE SO MUCH BASED ON SPECULATION FROM THE FIRST 10 HOURS OF THE GAME?? This was supposed to be a 2 for 1 post, but it's way too late for me to be writing tl;dr on Spada's interaction with Ange, which is probably the only part of his personality I find unpleasant in hindsight.
But first, some video game character thoughts!
Let's start with Digital Devil Saga and Serph. Given that I am only 10 hours in game and have a sparse understanding of the rest of the game(s), I expect much of this to end up becoming incorrect.
The thing about Serph is that his leadership abilities seems to be very much an Informed Ability. It's strange because he doesn't really demonstrate leadership outside of the introduction movie, where he actively commands the other members of Embryon's elite to move out. And while the Embryon mostly appear to be deferential to him (as he's their leader), there are other moments where he seems to be overruled. What comes to mind most is when Gale outlines the plan to betray the Maribels. While this scene is alright if you choose to go through with the plan, if Serph says they will do this without betrayal, Heat gets all hissy and Gale just continues on as if Serph had agreed in the first place. When Heat moves to devour Bat in Maribel territory, he does pause when Serph silently gestures to stop, but after a few choice words, he's back to almost eating Bat again. He stops when Argilla tells him not to, and I think it's not out of respect but not wanting Argilla on his case if he did eat Bat.
So, I guess my question is, how does Serph lead the Embryon, then?
I have a theory that with the awakening of everyone's Atma, and thus their emotions, that maybe his newly awakening personality could have overridden some of his old leadership ability. Gale says everyone is acting strangely/differently, which would imply that Serph is, too. I don't really know too many details about the cast's digital nature so I can't really expand more on this.
Instead, I guess I'll make note of what I've already seen. Firstly, I think it's worth noting that Serph is a very visible leader, unlike some of the other Tribe leaders. This is even more notable, since a Tribe is absorbed when the leader is killed, so he's not just risking his neck, but for him, personally, he would be risking the entirety of Embryon, too. Before everyone gained an Atma, I have no doubt Embryon would have switched Tribes easily since that is the law of the Junkyard. Harley, too, was a visible leader, until his Atma awakened and he became a terrified mess. If they had no concept of emotion at the time (or rather, a very limited understanding?), then how did the Tribes function or come to be before gaining Atma? Is their current state based on the real Sera's idea of how they'd be? Sort of like an author who needs to create some minor characters to fill a particular role, the Tribes are ideas on how they should be. They wouldn't have had depth or ability to function outside the limited set of what they were programmed to do. At least, this is based off my limited understanding of the late game story.
Also from what I understand, the main cast (other than Gale) were all more detailed AIs based on real people around Sera, but had those identities wiped before they were placed in the Junkyard. The Atma awakening was... reaccessing those lost AI memories? Though with the awakening of Atma, it seems all the AIs continued to grow beyond whatever they had begun with.
I think some of the Embryon members also mention that Serph has a memory problem?
Anyway, it seems Serph was probably more active in his leadership before he gained his Atma, but I do think that perhaps he's largely the same. I'm going out on a limb here, but, at least with the Embryon 'elite', he considers them all his equals, so he trusts them all with his back, likely part of the reason he's on the front lines so much (lead by example? Even if it's more risky) and why he allows the others to speak on his behalf (Gale to the Vanguards in the beginning, I imagine Argilla would have been the one to explain their offer of alliance to Jinanna). He doesn't seem to be the sort to use the others for protection either so that might factor into it.
The other silent protagonists I'm most familiar with are Minato, Souji and the protag of Devil Survivor. What's really contrasting between them and Serphs is that while none of those characters are inclined to chattiness, it's pretty apparent they can do their own fair share of talking. Souji or the DeSu protag's probably the most chatty of them, and they sure seem able to easily carry a conversation if needed, while Minato's on the more quiet side of it, but just as capable.
My impression of Serph so far is... vastly different. While the others have quite a few occasions where they either speak or are implied to speaking, Serph doesn't seem to have that. Very strongly lying on the side of not speaking unless it is necessary. You can imply Minato's speaking through the battle system (issuing commands to your party members) or through various dialogues (also, whether he accepts or refuses to hang out etc.). Most of Serph's actions imply silence, in that his commands are often wordless. Maybe that's a result of them being on a battlefield, fighting against other similarly intelligent people, so voiced commands also inform the enemy of your own movements. But outside of the tutorial-like NPCs explaining the world-building, there's been a grand total of like, two dialogue choices. Maybe when you talk to the NPCs, Serph is basically going around asking them what's up or something, basically checking on his people.
But I do have to admit he is very passive, and that the Embryon elite do much of the talking for him, and he listens. He only takes action when either asked, or when he feels strongly enough about something. While he may have objected to Gale's plan to betray the Maribels (I'm sort of assuming that's the 'right' answer, since it's the only answer to have benefits later), I don't think he felt too strongly about it because of the situation. But he does stop Heat from eating Bat, though I have no idea why, when they've been consuming lesser people all the way. When he's on his own (the Karma Temple and the Dissemination Machine and the first appearance of Angel comes to mind), I do think he does take a bit more of an active role, because there is no one else to do it. He speaks last out of the Tribe Leaders. Basically if there's no one else to do the speaking for him, then he will do it, I guess. He's also the one who carry Argilla back to base after visiting Harley.
I suppose if I was to app him to an RP (and by an RP, I mean Vatheon), I'm probably going to have to focus a lot on body language and his expression. Basically give the other player a lot of non-verbal cues. There is also the issue of, uh, you know, needing to consume. I'm estimating about a day of non-eating before the Atma starts exerting its hungry existence, based on how out of it Argilla was after visiting Harley, and how Gale turned while people were gone. I don't know if the Atma is indiscriminate, or if it has to be Atma specifically that everyone needs to consume (I'm assuming the latter, though). Although I admit, it would be pretty funny if someone offered themselves up for eating and after Serph ate them it'd be like LOL NOPE THAT DIDN'T DO ANYTHING. Whoops. It's possible for Vatheon to have a dampening effect on the Atma's hunger, though, and I guess there's a good chance he'll have to go to the Nostalgia Nook to find some sort of Atma substitute.
I suppose maybe I should look at how he regards his Atma. It seems he's very much go with the flow in regards to the new power. Not rejecting the need to consume, but not revelling it either. I think that says a lot about how he is, very... middle path? That might actually be an interesting thing to watch out for, given the hindu and buddhist aesthetics in this game. Well, either way, he does what he has to and accepts change for what it is and goes on.
What I find interesting is how his Atma is in stark contrast with his personality. Heat's Atma seems to simply exacerbate his developing fiery personality, while Argilla's seems to reflect her own dislike for consumption, given her faceless Atma with teeth in a very awkward feeding location. Serph does seem to have a rather cool demeanour, but when he gets into Atma form, the roars when he consumes or gets the final blow is really bestial. Because the Atma are essentially a part of them, makes me wonder how it is for Serph, since the Atma seems to revel in the killing, but he doesn't. A means to an end?
Man I really should be waiting before doing this kind of character analysis, since I'm sure the game has answers to a lot of the questions I have.
WHY DID I WRITE SO MUCH BASED ON SPECULATION FROM THE FIRST 10 HOURS OF THE GAME?? This was supposed to be a 2 for 1 post, but it's way too late for me to be writing tl;dr on Spada's interaction with Ange, which is probably the only part of his personality I find unpleasant in hindsight.